By Ben Bisbach
Mabel, MN
Jason Sethre’s recent editorial, regarding the universal free school lunch program, brought a few things to mind for me. He is opposed to the state providing a benefit to everyone, and not just the very poor. But why? Large numbers of Minnesotans were considered too “well off” to qualify for the previous program, yet are not actually well off by any realistic measure and often struggle to pay for food. This is evidenced by how unexpectedly popular the new program is, and further evidenced by the tens of thousands of dollars of unpaid lunch bills accumulated by school districts under the previous system. That deficit was often made up by purchasing lower quality food. (Remember the days of passing off ketchup as a vegetable?) Alternatively, some schools would actually take food from students who could not pay when they got to the cashier. Now, no Minnesota student will be subject to that humiliation, and their families will get some meaningful financial relief.
As far as the millionaires go, I certainly don’t seek to subsidize them either. However, I suspect that it was cheaper and far more efficient to simply make this a universal program, than to create and implement a system for collecting lunch payments only from the wealthiest sliver of the population.
And then there are those of us in the middle, who can afford food, but who are not so rich that the cost means nothing. Reasonable people can disagree, but personally I am happy to see my tax dollars used for the benefit of those of us in the middle class too.
Of course, it is sensible and necessary to scrutinize the fiscal implications of a policy. Yet I have long observed that fiscal concerns tend to be raised only when one already disagrees with a policy (or party), and ignored when the policy or party is supported. Mr. Sethre seems to place his focus on Democrats, but I think we are all guilty of this. Take a quick glance at the actual track record of self-described fiscal conservatives, especially at the federal level, when they hold the levers of power. Or, consider the policy proposed by Minnesota Republicans in the 2023 legislative session. It would have financed permanent tax cuts with one-time surplus money. Some people will still claim tax cuts pay for themselves – no equivalent spending cuts required. (Apparently, there is a free lunch after all.) But in all likelihood, the result would have been budget shortfalls once the surplus ran out. I wonder, it that policy had passed, if we would see an editorial in the pages of the Journal lamenting the fiscal irresponsibility of it all?
This is just my opinion – I do not claim to speak for everyone. Mr. Sethre does come across as claiming to speak for rural Minnesota as a whole in opposing the policies of the governor and legislature. He states that he doesn’t “have a voice anymore in the state of Minnesota.” I would respectfully argue that he and all of us had a voice through our votes in November 2022. Some may not want to believe it, but a majority of Minnesotans preferred Gov. Walz and a Democratic legislature. Including a great many of us here in rural Minnesota.
Rock/Cow per Walz says
Gee Ben:
What about giving illegals free health care and college tuition? What about putting US citizens in front of the illegals for a change? That would be a novel concept. Obviously, you think the two “free programs” I cited programs will cost nothing. I paid for my college education. Once the hospitals and schools are short on money or go broke, they will come to come to the taxpayers for a bailout and the DFL party will wonder what happened. Typical DFL thinking. Just throw money at the problem and the problem will go away. I also like how DFL spent the surplus on social programs that now have to be funded in future years as well. The state’s budget increased, if I am correct, approximately 30%. As a banker for 38 years, if you increase spending by this amount, your income (taxes) will also need to be increased by at least the same amount. Maybe the liberals/socialists in the Twin Cities, Rochester, and Duluth may believe Walz is doing a good job, but the rural areas do not. All the DFL party needs to do is win these areas and they control the state. But as Walz calls folks that live in rural MN, we are just “rocks and cows”. That is pretty condescending.
Thomas E.H. says
@Rock/Cow per Walz
//What about giving illegals free health care and college tuition?//
Democrats want Medicare for all. Democrats want free (or at the very least affordable) college tuition.
//What about putting US citizens in front of the illegals for a change?//
Democrats tried. Blocked by Republicans.
//Obviously, you think the two “free programs” I cited programs will cost nothing. I paid for my college education.//
How much did you pay for your college education? How much would it cost you now? What were the contextual costs for goods and services when you paid for your college education? What was your income to expenses ratio?
//Once the hospitals and schools are short on money or go broke, they will come to come to the taxpayers for a bailout and the DFL party will wonder what happened.//
The U.S. Military would do the same thing. What are you saying? That the U.S. military is the largest socialist program in the world? It is.
//But as Walz calls folks that live in rural MN, we are just “rocks and cows”. That is pretty condescending.//
Haha. No he didn’t. A 9 second clip of him saying that without providing the rest of his sentence made it look like he did. His full statement was this:
“You see those maps. Red and blue and there’s all that red across there. And Democrats go into depression over it. It’s mostly rocks and cows that are in that red area,” Walz said. Walz goes on to say, “It’s mostly rocks and cows that are in that red area because of demographics. I’m a geographer. But it doesn’t change the fact that moving toward an urban population left a lot of areas where they were wondering, ‘Where was the person speaking for them?'”
…[T}he video is taken out of context and cuts off just as the Mankato Democrat is making his main point — that people in Greater Minnesota feel like they aren’t being heard.
This correction was reported by the Post Bulletin on Nov. 6, 2017.
Fact is, you were lied to by standard political spin tactics. And you continually name yourself “Rock/Cow per Walz” to parade the success of their spun story. Congratulations.
Anonymous says
Tom. Your statement; Republicans blocked putting citizens first is laughable. I know what I paid during the previous administration and what I pay now under biden has hurt the middle class. I will just assume you were talking about the border bill. Biden could shut that border tomorrow if he really has concern for the citizens of the USA. Follow the existing laws.
Thomas E.H. says
@ Anonymous
// Your statement; Republicans blocked putting citizens first is laughable. //
I didn’t say that. I merely implied it by pointing out that, just like in every other civilised nation, the radical left feels that everyone should have free healthcare and affordable education.
//I know what I paid during the previous administration and what I pay now under biden has hurt the middle class.//
Earnings are outpacing expenses in the U.S. Paying more for a product or service doesn’t really have much to do with the president. Gas prices? How much you pay for groceries? Biden doesn’t set those prices. He can’t touch them (apart from the 18 cent federal tax on fuel that he did indeed remove.
Your association of administrations and how much you’re paying intrigues me. Things that can have an effect on your wallet include an embargo/trade war with China, large chain stores buying out competition in their goal to be as close to a monopoly as possible, inflation. Inflation began with the trade war with China, then was amplified by the supply chain issues during the height of COVID. The only prices that really went down during the previous administration were fuel prices. Any ideas why they went down? (Hint: Had nothing to do with the president)
//I will just assume you were talking about the border bill. Biden could shut that border tomorrow if he really has concern for the citizens of the USA.//
He does have the abilities to enforce existing laws. However, since the majority of illegal immigration has been from those who enter legally, and then overstay their visas, it’s a bit tricky to solve that problem completely. Also, any attempts circumventing an act of Congress could easily be barred by a judge (and has been done historically). With regards to immigration at the border, I was under the impression that a bipartisan deal was reached in the Senate, then a particular former president told the House not to pursue it because it would make it easier for the GOP in the upcoming elections. Would you like to see evidence for that statement by the former president?
Cody says
Wow, Tom you have totally convinced me of my errors. If you get a 3% raise and the cost of living goes up 5 %. ( just an example) I didn’t realize I was out pacing inflation. Gas prices came down under that evil Trump but he had nothing to do with that, just like Obiden had nothing to do with the rise of energy prices. I guess I also was ignorant to all those people cutting fences, human trafficking, selling fentanyl and entering our country illegally were just a few mischief makers.
I’m glad that so called bipartisan bill failed, did you actually read it.? I think it aided illegal aliens enter our country. Would you like to see the evidence for that? It does no good to enact new laws when the bureaucracy ignores the existing ones.
Thomas E.H. says
@ Cody
//Wow, Tom you have totally convinced me of my errors. If you get a 3% raise and the cost of living goes up 5 %. ( just an example) I didn’t realize I was out pacing inflation.//
Wages have been outpacing inflation since 2021.
//Gas prices came down under that evil Trump but he had nothing to do with that, just like Obiden had nothing to do with the rise of energy prices.//
What did Trump do to lower gas prices, pray tell? What bill did he sign? What Executive Order did he sign?
Biden signed an executive order to halt the 18.4 cent tax on gas for 3 months when fuel prices were at their peak. Keep in mind, dollars per barrel aren’t the highest they’ve ever been, but fuel companies are making record profits. That’s capitalism for you, not politics.
//I guess I also was ignorant to all those people cutting fences, human trafficking, selling fentanyl and entering our country illegally were just a few mischief makers.//
Likely ignorant, yes. But you aren’t wrong in that there must be a comprehensive border solution where people are not able to freely walk across the border without going through the system. The major problem are the lack of judges to process refugees fleeing from unspeakable crime and poverty in other parts of South America and the world. Of course, the reasons why people are fleeing *are* the major issues. Desperation is usually what forces people to flee from their home. It may not be far-fetched for me to say that you may not understand until you’ve experienced it. Naturally, I don’t fully comprehend the magnitude of the crisis either, admittedly.
//I’m glad that so called bipartisan bill failed, did you actually read it.?//
I skimmed through it: https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/emergency_national_security_supplemental_bill_text.pdf
It included money to build more border barriers, to greatly expand detention facilities, and to hire more Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Border Patrol agents, asylum officers and immigration judges to reduce the years-long backlog in cases to determine asylum eligibility. It sought to expedite the asylum process, essentially ending — in most cases — the so-called “catch and release” policy whereby migrants are released into the U.S. pending asylum hearings. And it would have increased the standard of evidence needed to win asylum status.
The bill also would have supplied more funding to interdict fentanyl and human trafficking, and it included $60 billion in aid for Ukraine and $14 billion for Israel.
Now, the aid for Ukraine and Israel should not have been included in this border bill, in my opinion. But that’s that.
//I think it aided illegal aliens enter our country.//
Not really. See above.
//Would you like to see the evidence for that?//
Feel free to provide whatever evidence you wish to support your claim. The bill is right there.
//It does no good to enact new laws when the bureaucracy ignores the existing ones.//
Understandable sentiment, but not entirely true nonetheless.
Rock/Cow per Walz says
Gee Tom:
I am surprised that you did not call me a “racist”. Isn’t this the argument/stance Democrats use when unable to defend their position? I did pay for my college. It was expensive at the time, but I worked and got through it. When you went to college, did you take an economics class? Everything has to be paid for. So, I do not understand why illegals should get these things for free. The next time you go to the hospital/clinic, just tell them that they should do the entire healthcare visit/procedure for free. See what they say. How is the military a socialist program? This does not make sense. I know I will not change your mind, nor am I trying. We can agree to disagree. On your reply to defend Walz’s statement, why did he even make/put that in his statement. He could have just stated that these areas are red, and his party needs to work harder on turning those areas to the DFL.
Rock/Cow per Walz says
Gee Tom:
I am surprised you did not call me a “racist”. As for the military being a socialist program, I am not sure what your point is. Did you ever take an economics class? Nothing is “free”. Somewhere down the line everything has to be paid for. The next time you go a hospital/clinic, tell them that they are not to charge you for their service. See what they say. Or any other business government agency for that matter. Based on the cost of college at the present time and the quality a person gets, I would likely consider a trade school. At the time I went to college in the 1970′, it was the norm that people get a college degree on the hopes of better pay, advancement. Not saying that people that chose not to attend a college made a bad decision. But college at the time did not teach/expose me what I learned “on the job” in the banks I was employed at. Not sure what the income to ratio statement of yours means. On your defense of Walz’s statement, he did not have to make the Rock/cow reference. he could have just stated that these areas are red due to population demographics and that the party needs to work harder to spread their message. Oh, the DFL party does not spin any messages either. Correct? I am not trying to change your mind, so we can agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Greg Rendahl says
Rock/Cow, you know you’ll never get all the egg off your face. It will just start to stink. Friendly advise: change your now ridiculous moniker.
Thomas E.H. says
@Rock/Cow per Walz
//I am surprised you did not call me a “racist”.//
Why would I call you a racist? You have given me no indication that you are. There is no need for faux inflammatory rhetoric.
//As for the military being a socialist program, I am not sure what your point is. Did you ever take an economics class? Nothing is “free”. Somewhere down the line everything has to be paid for. The next time you go a hospital/clinic, tell them that they are not to charge you for their service. See what they say. Or any other business government agency for that matter.//
I have indeed. In fact, I find it remarkable that the U.S. remains among the only nations that does not have affordable healthcare. I can indeed go to virtually any other civlised country and receive either no bill, or a pittance of a bill. Nothing that would ever generate the fear of need to decide whether to prioritise healthcare or housing.
//Based on the cost of college at the present time and the quality a person gets, I would likely consider a trade school. At the time I went to college in the 1970′, it was the norm that people get a college degree on the hopes of better pay, advancement. Not saying that people that chose not to attend a college made a bad decision. But college at the time did not teach/expose me what I learned “on the job” in the banks I was employed at. Not sure what the income to ratio statement of yours means.//
I do not at all disagree that trade schools are phenomenal. They are for hands-on people. Not everyone is a hands-on person. Just as you may be able to wield a welder, another may feel more comfortable in a lab helping cure cancer or study the aftermath of a neutron star colliding with another. Each person has their own backgrounds, experiences, and interests. Each person can contribute to society. It is true that not all people contribute equally. Some may not wish to, others may not be able to. But should people not have the right to pursue happiness? The right to pursue happiness is becoming far more expensive for some people who live a different life than you, yet contribute to this society in their own ways.
//On your defense of Walz’s statement, he did not have to make the Rock/cow reference. he could have just stated that these areas are red due to population demographics and that the party needs to work harder to spread their message.//
He absolutely could have, and should indeed have known that there are operatives who have a sole purpose to spin information so their preferred candidate can look better to the general public who does not have the time, energy, nor want to look up a simple quotation to verify it. This is not a slight on you, but a recognition that you are a reflection of the reality we live in. People don’t dig for the truth, and to answer your last question. Yes, the DFL certainly spins messages. They are just as guilty. But I do not subscribe to either party in this wonderful state. I vote for people. Partisan politics may have had a place, but that purpose has been shattered by the drumbeat of violence from both sides. The fears of America’s first president may be coming to pass. A subscription to parties will mean people overlook each other’s humanities, and instead place them within a labeled box and treat them as though their entire history of life that led them to be the person they are does not matter. Because it’s easier to rip apart that which comes in box wrapped with a bow than it is to speak with another human. Harder still to *listen* to another person who has been predetermined to be unworthy of one’s time, simply because they belong to a party.
ben bisbach says
Hi “Rock” – it looks like others have done a pretty good job of addressing many of your points here. However I think you might have missed one of the main points of my commentary. Besides defending the lunch program on its merits, as a good use of tax dollars, I sought to point out how all of us tend to have very different standards for how we assess “fiscal responsibility” based on whether we believe in the merits of the policy. I think it is safe to assume that you are a conservative/republican person. Can you truly and honestly say you judge the fiscal implications of conservative policy goals with the same cynicism and and scrutiny you are expressing here for DFL priorities? I brought up the MN Republican’s proposal to finance permanent tax cuts with a temporary surplus. In your experience as a banker, can you really argue this is fiscally responsible? To be clear, I think we are all entitled to our opinions on what we value, whether that is lower taxes or subsidizing school lunches. What I object to is when conservatives invoke “fiscal responsibility” ONLY to argue against liberals, while shamelessly ignoring the fiscal implications of their own priorities. Every republican president since Reagan has presided over massive increases in federal debt, driven mainly by debt financed tax cuts and huge increases in military spending. I am just so very tired of being lectured about fiscal responsibility by people who are incapable of practicing what they preach.