By Aaron Swartzentruber
Greenleafton, MN
I can’t help but chuckle a bit when I read an article addressing the problem of soil erosion and the same article talks about how evolution thrives and succeeds. I really shouldn’t chuckle too much though, because it is a sad case if you really think we’ve evolved from our closest ancestors that are swinging from limb to limb in the trees over there at the zoo. Doesn’t evolution teach that the earth evolved from nothing? How is it then that the earth is decaying, not evolving? Also, if evolution succeeds from diversity then where did it start? Evolution says that life and the world has evolved from nothing to the absolute stunning complexity that we have today. But that goes against all the basic common sense facts. Everything you have is decaying, not getting better. When you get a new car it doesn’t get newer, it gets older, soon it’ll be rusting in the junk yard. According to evolution we should be seeing shiny new cadillacs coming out of the backside of the junkyard! Consider your own life, from the moment of your birth you are already marching towards your death. To me that sounds like decay, not evolution. Evolution is not only a hoax, it is patheticly unreasonable to reality. Deep down you know that there is a God that created the world and all that is therein including yourself but you don’t like to retain God in your knowledge because when you do that you are exposed as a sinner accountable to a Holy God. And so you suppress the truth and you exchange the truth for a lie. But that’s why Jesus was crucified, for the sins of the world, even your sins and my sins. (And if you think your not a sinner, just measure yourself by God’s 10 Commandments and it’ll change your mind. Every evolutionist breaks the first commandment). He was crucified in our place. We deserve death because of our sins against God. Jesus lived a sinless life. But, “He (God) hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” 2 Corinth 5:12. That doesn’t mean that Jesus became a sinner. He is the perfect spotless lamb of God. He took our sins to the grave and left them there when He arose on the third day. If you put your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation you are righteous in God’s sight. Then you won’t have to try to squirm your way out of the uncomfortable condemnation of your conscience anymore. And you won’t have to try to explain the unexplainable of evolution anymore. Would you like to have peace with God instead of condemnation? Just come on to Jesus. HE is the answer, not evolution.
Annabelle says
AMEN! So we’ll written and well put! I too get sick and tired when I read articles and they talk about evolution and how we evolved. We didn’t evolve. And some of these people who think they’re so smart yet consumed with this Pharisee spirit talk talk talk when really they’re so blind to the truth.
At least some of us see the light. I have to also remember that many are called and few are chosen. Most people are going to hell. Literally. I can pray and witness and do my best but most are going to hell.
John says
A better way to say it is we live in a temporary world of illusion (somewhat compatible with Buddhism), but the truth of Christ lies underneath. Everything is tailored by the deceiving forces of the damned, which is the truth of the damned, but it doesn’t matter one way or the other to the believer, and the believer should not try to convince anyone whose mind is already made up. I think what you should say is that evolution is real in the illusion. Trying to intellectually convince anyone anything is pointless because the world of the damned is compelling, beautiful, and comforting, which is why most will be damned to it (only explaining from the point of view of Christianity).
Jen says
Wow was going to wright a reply to this but after reading the other don’t feel the need to. Except to say it is sad that the person who wrote this will not understand most of the replies or ever read them most likely. Creationists are taught to reject every argument and not educate themselves. It is a very sad cult. There is a great documentary about it called “Questioning Darwin ” that clearly shows the complete narcissism of creationist. It is good to try and reach out to these cult type people and try to make them understand facts but because they think facts come in a two thousand year old book I doubt it will do any good. Normally I don’t think that anyone should try and challenge another’s faith in a god because it brings them happiness , but this religion is a whole different ball of wax. These people don’t believe in this religion because they get some spiritual comfort and happiness they follow because it makes them feel superior to others.
Aaron says
Since you’re so smart and educated I suppose you can tell me where you came from than? Did you come from nothing? You know, the “religion” called evolution that supposedly survives and thrives through diversity but yet had to start from nothing. True Christianity is different because it is not a religion, it is Christ. That so called 2 thousand year old book seems pretty relevant to me. I challenge you to read just the first chapter of romans……just one chapter, and compare it to our society. Also a 2000 year old book seems pretty impressive to me, actually parts of it are more like 6000 years old. Is there any other 6000 year old book around? Also from what you’ve said you obviously don’t believe in Christ. Did you know that the whole world revolves around Him? Just consider how we are in the year 2017, 2017 years after what? The death of Christ. Before that time is measured with the letters bc which means what? Before Christ. I’m not a Christian so I can feel superior. Christ is superior. One day every knee, in heaven and earth and beneath the earth, will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. There are no evolutionists in Hell because they realized that they made a great mistake and now believe in God, but it’s a little too late, how tragic! It’s God’s will for every person to be saved but He won’t force Himself on you. You have to accept Him. The only way to be saved is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. He was crucified for your sins whether you accept it or not, He was buried, defeated death and rose from the dead never to die again. Now He’s sitting at The Fathers right hand and He’s coming back to judge this world in righteousness. He loves you and doesn’t want to judge you but the choice is yours. Will you come to Him?
cnocspeireag says
Poe’s Law states that “without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is utterly impossible to parody a Creationist in such a way that someone won’t mistake for the genuine article.” People producing ridiculous claims hoping to fool others about their sincerity are often called “Poes”. I’m almost convinced that Aaron Swartzentruber is a Poe.
Everything Mr Swartzentruber says about science is wrong. Some of it is so basic that it would embarrass a schoolchild. In brief, evolution does not claim we evolved from modern apes, evolution has nothing to say about the earth’s formation and no branch of science claims our planet came from nothing, nor that it is somehow getting ‘better’. No scientist claims that new cars should magically appear from a junkyard.
With such lack of knowledge or understanding evinced in the first few lines, how could anyone take the author’s letter seriously?
Aaron says
Evolution says we came from nothing. If we take the theory of evolution than yes we should see everything getting better. I didn’t say that a scientist claimed that. I said according to evolution new cars should be “magically” appearing out of junk yards. So how about it than, what does evolution have to say about the earth? Evolution says it came from nothing, so yes, if it came from nothing it is much better than it was when it was nothing.
Thomas E. H. says
@Aaron
Please provide the author of the biology textbook which states “Evolution teaches us we come from nothing.”
You are committing a fallacy called false equivalency. The term evolution as used in the original soil article is clearly referencing biological evolution. This term has a specific meaning and has nothing to do with the origin of life, the earth, or the cosmos. If you want to have this discussion, recognize the terms we use in science are specified for a particular meaning. One simply cannot say “evolution teaches us…” and go off on the Big Bang, abiogenesis, panspermia, or rusty junkyards.
There is no scientific teaching which state the earth came from nothing. You are either misunderstanding, misinterpreting, or misrepresenting the accumulation of research and verified observations, or, you are merely regurgitating information derived in part or in whole by people who have little to no understanding of the subject, but claim they do.
Before making such claims again, please brush up on the laws of thermodynamics, the laws of conservation of matter and energy, and recognize the applications for all of them in relation to the macro-sized word we experience and the quantum-sized world that we can, to some degree, measure. Then, you may understand why biologists and mechanics alike will never expect the spontaneous accumulation of car parts coalescing into Cadillac vehicles. Then you can cease making these false statements of “according to the evolution…” because they have all been off the mark in what you’ve written here.
“Evolution says we came from nothing.” False. Evolution has no say on life from non-life, but rather explains the diversity of life.
“I said according to evolution new cars should be “magically” appearing out of junk yards.” False. Evolution makes no such predictions.
“Evolution says [the earth] came from nothing” False. Evolution does not say this.
“If we take the theory of evolution than yes we should see everything getting better.” False. The theory of evolution does NOT predict everything getting better. I don’t know where you got this information from, but it is not “according to evolution.”
Please cease using straw man arguments, because it does everyone a disservice, in particular the group of people and ideologies you purport to defend, because it makes you look sloppy, makes you look like you don’t grasp the concepts of what you don’t agree with. It additionally enforces people’s perspectives that the group of people you affiliate with are not literate.
Aaron says
You may be much more educated on the so called process of so called evolution than I am. But that’s how the devil snares you up in his vice. You have so much information about the “process” of so called evolution that you forget that you don’t have a foundation for it. You’re so busy getting “wiser and wiser” in studying the process of evolution that you don’t care about the foundation that is not there. May I politely say..How foolish! It doesn’t matter what all the “wise” worldly, God denying, scientists say. I know what God says, and His folly (if there was any) is wiser than all of the God denying scientists’ wisdom put together. In your opinion than, where did the earth come from?
Thomas E. H. says
Please recognize that just because one is a scientist does not mean they are God-denying. Many, and I daresay most, scientists accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. However, they do not accept your specific interpretation of a young earth. Many see the words in Genesis which state, “Let the land produce the animals” as a way for God to allow evolution to take place by forming the animals by means of the laws of nature. In this case, the laws of nature lead to an evolutionary process.
People who believe in a Creator and accept evolution as science are called theistic evolutionists. They see their faith and religion as a means to understand the Creator and science as the means to understand the Creation.
My opinion on where the Earth comes from matters not. What matters is the physical evidence left behind from the events which have led us to here and now.
Science and faith are not mutually exclusive. We can do far more together than parting words and splitting hairs on which interpretation or faith is the most accurate. One need not believe the earth is young to accept Jesus. We recognize we are flawed, not all one-minded, and that we can indeed learn from one another.
Aaron says
Please state the chapter and verse in Genesis that say “let the land produce the animals”. I have to disagree 1000% that most scientists accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. . If they would accept The Creator they would accept creation as stated in the Creators account of it all. Mingling creation with evolution is compromise and is the Devils work. Do you think the Devil is dumb? How would you go about to destroy the fact of creation in the hearts and minds of people if you were the Devil? Let me guess; You would slowly mingle your twisted lie with the truth. At first you’d say God created everything and just put it into motion. Then you’d start adding millions of years between creation and where we are now. And than the farther you’d get the people away from the personal Creator that made them the easier it would be to turn them against God because “If there is a Creator God He sure isn’t very loving and caring if he allows all this suffering and pain”. And than you would teach them that…..ahh….but if you just look deep within yourself and discover your hidden knowledge and power you can actually be better than God. And so when those folks finally face God on judgement day they’ll say “but we were told we could become gods ourselves” and you would say to them “you fools, didn’t you read the record that I myself tried that once and God threw me out of Heaven. And now I’m going to and fro on the earth seeking whom I may devour and take with me to Hell.. To bad for you, you should’ve read the Bible and “BELIEVED” it.”
Thomas E.H. says
@ Aaron
Genesis 1:11 for vegetation and for animals 1:24. If you could provide the biology textbook that states what you claim evolution states as I requested previously, that would be appreciated. You cannot claim something is of the Devil if you don’t know what that something is. Now, if you would like to continue this conversation, email me at thobbes2@gmail.com.
Thomas E. H. says
Please provide the author of the biology textbook which states “Evolution teaches us we come from nothing.”
You are committing a fallacy called false equivalency. The term evolution as used in the original soil article is clearly referencing biological evolution. This term has a specific meaning and has nothing to do with the origin of life, the earth, or the cosmos. If you want to have this discussion, recognize the terms we use in science are specified for a particular meaning. One simply cannot say “evolution teaches us…” and go off on the Big Bang, abiogenesis, panspermia, or rusty junkyards.
There is no scientific teaching which state the earth came from nothing. You are either misunderstanding, misinterpreting, or misrepresenting the accumulation of research and verified observations, or, you are merely regurgitating information derived in part or in whole by people who have little to no understanding of the subject, but claim they do.
Before making such claims again, please brush up on the laws of thermodynamics, the laws of conservation of matter and energy, and recognize the applications for all of them in relation to the macro-sized word we experience and the quantum-sized world that we can, to some degree, measure. Then, you may understand why biologists and mechanics alike will never expect the spontaneous accumulation of car parts coalescing into Cadillac vehicles. Then you can cease making these false statements of “according to the evolution…” because they have all been off the mark in what you’ve written here.
“Evolution says we came from nothing.” False. Evolution has no say on life from non-life, but rather explains the diversity of life.
“I said according to evolution new cars should be “magically” appearing out of junk yards.” False. Evolution makes no such predictions.
“Evolution says [the earth] came from nothing” False. Evolution does not say this.
“If we take the theory of evolution than yes we should see everything getting better.” False. The theory of evolution does NOT predict everything getting better. I don’t know where you got this information from, but it is not “according to evolution.”
Please cease using straw man arguments, because it does everyone a disservice, in particular the group of people and ideologies you purport to defend, because it makes you look sloppy, makes you look like you don’t grasp the concepts of what you don’t agree with, and conversely enforces people’s perspectives that the group of people you affiliate with are not literate.
Ken Phelps says
This article is too uninformed to merit much time. That the author seems to think that the variation between generations in replicating organisms (evolution) is somehow contradicted by gravity (the process of erosion), or that rusted cars reproduce in junkyards, betrays an ignorance too profound for correction. It is sad that a person’s search for meaning or purpose in their life should end so badly.
Tallgrass05 says
Wow. Who knew that junkyards don’t evolve? Please got some education so you can discuss evolution in a rational and knowledgeable manner.
I'm with Aaron! says
Let’s hear your side then, if you’re so educated! If you ARE educated on the subject, you should be open to new information, as all scientists are!
Thomas E. H. says
@I’m with Aaron
The theory of evolution does not predict non-biological pieces of scrap turning into Cadillacs in junkyards.
What it does predict are populations of species in genotypical isolation expressing phenotypes more suited to fit their environment over generations.
och will says
Aaron,
Is this your opinion or are you speaking for the entire trailer park?
I'm with Aaron! says
Let’s be civilized and if you would like to have a discussion about this, lets do it.
Steve says
” . . . it is a sad case if you really think we’ve evolved from our closest ancestors . . . ”
Forgive me, but if you don’t think you ‘evolved from’ (= ‘descend from’) your nearest ancestors, then who on earth are those people in your baby photos? 😉
Aaron says
Evolve and descend are very different words. Evolve means going up, descend means going down. I descended from my parents. I didn’t evolve from them. Besides, I’m sure you know very well the point I’m making. And in case you don’t here it is; WE DID NOT EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS. :-))
Thomas E. H. says
@Aaron
“Evolve” does NOT mean going up. This is a fundamental misunderstanding. Please do not continue making this false claim.
It means, in the very general sense, change over time. However, in terms of biological evolution, it means the change of allele frequencies in populations over time.
For those organisms that are *good enough* to reproduce before death, that is all it takes to pass on genetics to the next generation. AKA, their fitness.
We share a common ancestor with monkeys. We did not evolve from any extant population other than Homo sapiens.
Jim904 says
It’s not that people can hold such woefully ignorant views as displayed here that worries me, it’s that the very same people can influence others around them,
I beg of you, read one book on science before posting your comments here, your an embarrassment to religion.
I'm with Aaron! says
One, what religion is he embarrassing? Two, most of us have all been taught the so-called ‘scientific’ way in school. Have you read and researched the creation story? Have you researched the facts about it? If you have, you’ll find that it is true. Evolution can’t be proved.
Thomas E. H. says
@I’m with Aaron
Science doesn’t prove things, it disproves them, thereby providing the best available explanations which most accurately fit the data.
Gravity isn’t proved. There is a theory of gravity which is the current explanation of the facts of gravity and how the observations (laws) of gravity work in the practical sense.
And although I am not the author of the post you are replying to and they are very capable of answering for themselves, I have studied and delved into the notion of Creationism. Multiple variations of Creationism. Creationism is not a science. That fight ended in court.
The Atheist in a Foxhole says
Evolution is a fact.
God may or may not exist.
The Bible is fiction.
Fact > Fiction
Aaron says
Who says evolution is fact? Who says the Bible is fiction? Have you read it? Lets just imagine a scenario, If I live my life as if the Bible is true and God is real and Heaven is real and Hell is real and I die and find out that it was all a myth (which I KNOW It’s not) what would I have lost? Now, If you live your life as if the Bible is fiction and God is not real and Heaven is not real and neither is Hell and you die and find out that it is real and you’ve made a terrible mistake, friend, what will you lose? Think about that. God is calling you today, right now.
John S says
What a complete load of absolute and total nonsense. Sad that some people are still totally clueless about their own origins.
Aaron Bishop says
Hello Aaron,
Thank you for reading my articles.
I believe you may have missed the intended point of my article when I used the term “evolution”.
I would very much prefer to discuss things which are affecting our region now and in the near-future. If you have something to add to the important conversation of soil protection and conservation, I would be glad to hear it.
However, if you feel that evolutionary theory is such an important topic to write 469 words in off-topic response, I am willing to have this conversation as well.
Are you?
Cheers.
Aaron says
And thank you for reading my article also.
Brian says
Mr Swartzentruber doesn’t know what evolution is but he’s against it!
“Doesn’t evolution teach that the earth evolved from nothing?”
No, it doesn’t. The Big Bang Theory, which is not part of Darwin’s theory of evolution, does not either.
“Evolution says that life and the world has evolved from nothing to the absolute stunning complexity that we have today.”
No, it doesn’t. Seems like you need to study this scientific claim you are attacking.
” According to evolution we should be seeing shiny new cadillacs coming out of the backside of the junkyard! ”
No, this is also wrong.
“Deep down you know that there is a God that created the world and all that is therein including yourself but you don’t like to retain God in your knowledge because when you do that you are exposed as a sinner accountable to a Holy God.”
This is not true for me at all. And of course, the more than thirteen thousand American clergy-folk who have signed a statement saying they see no conflict between evolution and Christianity would also disagree with you.
” Every evolutionist breaks the first commandment”
Nope. As stated above, many Christians accept God and also evolution. I personally am an atheist so I have no God at all; therefore none in front of your version of God. Here’s the best thing about your post in the filmorecountyjournal; If you repeat this claim, then you are breaking the ninth commandment.
“And you won’t have to try to explain the unexplainable of evolution anymore. ”
I don’t have to do that already. I just explain the reasonable and well-supported claims of evolution.
Mr Swartzentruber, please learn what the theory of evolution actually claims. Then attack it or not as you like but in this letter, your starting claims are wrong so you only embarrass yourself.
I'm with Aaron! says
I’m sure Mr. Swartzentruber has studied up on the subject before writing his article, and he’s mostly right! Why would he write about something he doesn’t know about? That sounds more like the other people who commented on this article without first becoming educated with both sides, and not just reading, watching, or listening to their supposed side, without doing some of their own thinking and reasoning. I like to call it thinking for ourselves. It makes more sense that way.
The Big Bang theory you are referring to explains that before the Big Bang, there was nothing, and after the Big Bang, is the universe as we know it. I hate to say you’re wrong, but you are. A simple look in a textbook will tell you that.
Also, one can conclude from researching evolution that it isn’t fact. In fact, you reference Darwin’s theory, and it is just that, a theory. It isn’t operational science, which is observable, testable, and repeatable to get the same results, we can’t prove anything of evolution at all. Evolution is just a theory, it isn’t fact, whether you use Darwin to back you up or the big bang theory.
“Every evolutionist breaks the first commandment.”
This is true, and here’s why. The first commandment says this in the NIV Bible: “I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other god before me.” This means that you simply cannot believe ivolution and in God. Since he says he created the world and everything therein, every other believe is idolatry. Idolatry is replacing God with something else. That’s what you just did.
Just because you don’t believe in something doesn’t mean it isn’t true. One could believe with all his heart, mind, and soul that the sun is purple, even though we all know that isn’t true. You could try to convince his/her, but they are stuck in their ways and WILL NOT change his beliefs or accept and respect others views. You could tell them every week for the rest of their life they are wrong, but they probably won’t change their opinion and views because they only see their side of the story, find things to back them up that they agree with, and disregard everything else that tells them otherwise.
I can’t speak for others, but that scenario sounds awfully familiar, especially after reading other’s comments, including your own.
I'm with Aaron! says
Also, the ninth commandment says this: “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.” Aaron is telling you what the Bible says, and relaying the message to you using the whole Bible and all it’s truth, not just that one commandment and then using wrong teachings from the world to preach it.
Again, just because everyone else agrees, doesn’t mean it’s right. That thirteen thousand ‘clergy-folk’ you reference are a very, very, VERY small number of people to agree on an argument. That’s not enough to make it right, nor do they use biblical references or teachings to back that up. Again, you have to use the whole Bible, not just a little bitty part or verse.
I appreciate your input, though it may not seem like it! These discussions are great to have, as long as we can keep it factual, Biblical, and logical. Theories aren’t factual, and you can’t lean on them. You weren’t there, no one was there, except for God. So let’s believe his word, after all, he was the only one there before we were!
God Bless
Thomas E. H. says
@I’m with Aaron
The Big Bang Theory as currently recognized is not as you describe. The Big Bang theory is an explanation of what events happened after matter and time existed. It makes no statements on “before”. You are either misinformed about, misinterpreting, or misrepresenting a foundational cosmological theory.
Also, please note the difference in definitions between theory and scientific theory. The two are not the same. The dictionary clearly makes a distinction.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/scientific-theory
Scientific-Theory
“a coherent group of propositions formulated to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the natural world and repeatedly confirmed through experiment or observation:”
Note: it is a *coherent group of propositions* and not just a single thought or notion. Also, in order to be considered a scientific theory, it must provide explanations for facts and make predictions which can be confirmed through experiment or observation.
Please don’t confuse theory (notion) with scientific theory (substantiated propositions) when discussing evolution, the big bang, gravity, thermodynamics, etc.
Thank you.
I do agree with some of your other posts where you stated that these discussions should be cordial. I appreciate your willingness to encourage civility in these hot-button topics.
Ian says
I think the deacon is in desperate need of a primary education in science. Evolution is a scientific theory which is well supported over many years and different disciplines. We did ‘come’ from apes. We have a common ancestor.
I'm with Aaron says
You said it yourself, it’s just a theory! Yet, you say it as a fact that we came from apes!
Thomas E. H. says
@I’m with Aaron
“Have you ever heard of gravitational theory? Works pretty well. How about germ theory? You see in science we use the term ‘theory’ in a different way. It’s not somebody’s wild idea, it’s been tested scientifically. It’s been demonstrated to have happened.
Evolution is a fact, it’s not a theory. There is evolutionary theory, and that is the body of facts and observation that we can impose, or bring to bear, on the question of how things evolved.” ~Dr. Tim White; anthropologist
Aaron says
Before you tell me how things evolved I’d like to know where it all started. You can’t build anything without a firm foundation.
Thomas E. H. says
@Aaron
The two are mutually exclusive. One need not know the origin of iron to learn from and be able to make predictions of how vehicles work.
If you want to have a cosmological discussion, we can, but then we’ve far strayed from the original off topic post of biological evolution as well as the original article you first replied to. That being the quantitative and qualitative depletion of soil and how diversifying crops may be beneficial to getting healthier soil.
Aaron says
@Thomas E H on the iron illustration. Do you also believe than that we need not know our history in order to know where we’re going. It seems to me that if we’d learn from history we wouldn’t have the trouble in the world that we have today? The trouble that we have today is because we’ve turned our backs on The Almighty Creator of the world. If you have a Bible you can read all about the cycle of God’s blessings and judgements in the book of judges
Thomas E. H. says
@ Aaron
Learning the history of humans is important, yes. Thank you for the reading advice. I recall the story of Jepthah in Judges. I wasn’t particularly fond of the inclinations in that particular story, but who am I to judge?
Aaron says
Correct me if I’m wrong but my guess is that you’re referring to Jepthah sacrificing his daughter? He actually didn’t sacrifice his daughter as on an alter like they sacrificed animals. God strictly forbids human sacrifice. Read the account of Jepthah carefully and you’ll find that the sacrifice that was made is that she did not get married and have children. In that day that was not something that a woman or a future granddaddy wanted.
Thomas E.H. says
@ Aaron
Nope. I just reread it carefully and it’s quite clear that Jepthah fulfilled his promise. The deal wasn’t for the first thing out of his house to remain a virgin. As I said email me if you want to continue this discussion.